Discovery 1x11: The Wolf Inside

[rivendellrose]

Here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x11: "The Wolf Inside."

Please be aware that there will be spoilery comments on this entry. As always, I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode, and if the conversation hasn't gotten too far without me I will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut.



So, wow, I have to admit I did not expect shit to go down quite this quickly! I admit, part way through the episode I started wondering wtf the last four episodes were going to be about, but, well, I have a theory about that after the end of this episode.

First off, I think we can now safely say that if this episode had a moral, it might be "Don't put the weight of your entire sanity and ability to function as a human being on one person, no matter how much you love them." Ash, baby... my dear Lt. Bambi and also you goddamned face-eating Klingon... you could have avoided all of this to some extent if you'd just admitted way back when, "Hey, I might need help. I am probably not safe to be on duty in my current mental state. I should seek therapy. And not kill the doctor who grounds me out of concern and compassion."

Another good moral might be "When you're in an alternate universe, don't fuck up and call people by names they haven't told you yet," BURNHAM. "I've decided I'm going to call you that," says Burnham of Saru's actual name. Not like he's going to be at all suspicious about that one!

"Tell the people you trust the full truth," might also be a lesson to take from this. Burnham, maybe tell Saru!Prime that you did indeed find him on the Mirror Shenzhou. Saru!Prime, maybe tell Burnham that Culber is dead. You don't know if this information might turn out to be important. And the very fact that you left it out just basically ensured that it will be.

"When your friends start acting erratically, give them a break and encourage them to step back from stressful responsibilities that seem to be taking a toll on them." Hey, Burnham - notice how Ash is having a real hard time coping with this mission all of a sudden? Maybe send him outside to get some air rather than assuming he can handle it when you know damned well that's a 50/50 proposition. That way maybe he won't attack himself the dude you're trying to have peace talks with.

"No good deed ever goes unpunished," as Burnham learns that while she can trick the crew of the Shenzhou into believing that she's just really into hands-on management methods in the destruction of the rebel base (...man, what fandom am I in right now?), there are other people who are less easily fooled.

And of course, the ever-popular "Shoot first, ask questions later." If your boyfriend says that he's a Klingon who killed Dr. Culber and remembers you killing his lord and trying to gouge his eyes out back at the beginning of the season, consider shooting him before he tries to finish you.

For the fans, "Be careful what you wish for" would seem like it might be appropriate wisdom to take to heart. Oh, have I wished for Georgiou back. So many times. As soon as I heard there was going to be a Mirror Universe episode, my first response was "I want Mirror!Georgiou." And I still do. But holy freaking hell is Emperor Georgiou going to be terrifying. I'm not sorry I wished for this, but... well, ask me again next week.

Lastly, a moral purely for me: "When one fan theory turns out to be 100% correct, don't dismiss the next you run across as unlikely." Because I am starting to seriously fall in line with this whole "Lorca is from the Mirror Universe" thing, and I think right now that it might be the best possible explanation of where the next episodes are going to go.

Comments

[tptigger]

Michael is amazing, and damnit it why did the internet have to be right about Tyler? :(

[rivendellrose]

Michael is amazing, and... man, I don't even know. I've wished it wasn't true from the beginning, even though I was sure it was. This was especially rough, though.

[cheyinka]

Ted Sullivan on AfterTrek described the episode as Burnham's worst nightmare, and that's really, depressingly true. It was fantastic and nailbitingly awesome and also infuriating at the same time.

I wish the plan had been to take Voq back to the prime universe and having both let Tyler stay Tyler.

[rivendellrose]

Ted Sullivan on AfterTrek described the episode as Burnham's worst nightmare, and that's really, depressingly true.

Yup, that about covers it. Poor, poor Burnham. This is just... hell, for her. It's really just hell. You could see the last little flicker of hope extinguished in her eyes when the Emperor showed up and she saw who it was.

I wish the plan had been to take Voq back to the prime universe and having both let Tyler stay Tyler.

Same. I don't know how they could have managed it, with Tyler coming apart at the seams the way he has been, but it would have been nice.

[kore]

It was fantastic and nailbitingly awesome and also infuriating at the same time.

Yeah, it was a great ep, but I don't know how much I enjoyed it.

I wish the plan had been to take Voq back to the prime universe and having both let Tyler stay Tyler.

YES. And is Mirror!Voq dead now? Because that's....depressing.

[monanotlisa]

AfterTrek described the episode as Burnham's worst nightmare, and that's really, depressingly true

Well, she has not yet failed in her mission; she may get the Discovery back now. But with regard to lives that are not on the Discovery, Everything Crumbles To Ash (I couldn't resist). I think Ash Tyler alone she might just have been able to bear a little while longer: She loves him, but she had a Plan to save him, and could still execute it when she pressed that button; her insides ripping apart had come earlier, in her chambers. But the Giorgiou reveal...that was it; this is officially The Worst.

[conuly]

That last scene makes no sense. Seriously, why would the Emperor make a special trip over what is, at most, a 90 minute delay in the timeline? Even if she feels this is worth checking into, surely it's better to delegate.

[rivendellrose]

My take would be, first off, that Georgiou's never seemed like the type to delegate, and second, that I think she set this as a trap for Burnham. She knows something's up, and she demanded Burnham do this as a test, suspecting that Burnham would fail it.

It is a little bit dodgy mostly because this is supposedly an emperor no one has seen in person... but that always stood out as an obvious plot contrivance to delay the reveal of Georgiou until it was a face-to-face.

[ex_kuromitsu998]

To be honest if I was Emperor of an empire where I need to watch my back all the time, and I received news that a powerful person believed dead has suddenly shown up, reclaimed her ship and then proceeded to ignore my orders... I most definitely wouldn't delegate. I'd go there myself, prepared to deal with all sorts of betrayals and traps and backstabbing.

[saturnofthemoon]

I'm wondering if the transmission itself was actually from lightyears away, especially since the emperor is so isolated that the rebels didn't know her identity.

'we are still Starfleet'

[kore]

"I no longer have my pips, but I'm still Starfleet. Please don't ask me to slaughter this coalition of hope." Sonequa Martin-Green makes that sound good.

"This is the closest to a Federation this universe may ever have!" OH MICHAEL

Ahh crap, I knew when Ash started lowkey and not-so-lowkey freaking out just seeing Voq that there was going to be some horrible end. (I wasn't expecting a Kirk v Kirk style fight, though.) I pretty much had accepted the Ash/Vpq dumbness, but wow, it still hurts.

Tilly geeking out over her shrooms! Saru being impressed! <33 Of course, then we're HEARTBROKEN RIGHT AFTERWARD, augh.

That Michael/Ash scene broke my heart. That surgery scene was awful. And is he Voq? "I sacrificed my body and mind," and he speaks in Voq's voice....He doesn't SOUND like Ash, either. I dunno how this can end well at all, and it was already close to tragedy. I doomed it, I always wind up shipping the het rarepair in nearly every fandom for some reason.

Evil Mirror Paul! omg. Heh, when the floppy-haired science geeks go wrong, their counterparts always have nicely styled hair. (Prediction: Paul and luaP are going to get the gang home, not anything else.)

TIME TO GO, TIME TO GOOOO, TIME TO GO! OMG Lorca you are such a manipulative prick. "We can survive this place together!" AUGH. And the look on his face when she bows to Evil Phil! What a JERK.

It was a well-made and acted episode, but I don't know if I really enjoyed it. Whumping characters and delicious h/ is one thing, but this does feel pretty hopeless and like it's going to scar everyone. (However I am TERRIFIED AND DELIGHTED in equal measure by Evil Emperor Phil.) It feels like everything that could go wrong did, and in the worst possible way, and the characters might not be able to come back from it.

Lorca is totally Mirrorverse origin and has been masterminding the whole thing with Burnham, the spore drive, and war tech from the beginning. He obviously wanted the spore drive to specifically get back to his 'verse, and to get Burnham there. Does he want to use her to stage another coup? Feed her to the Emperor? Curry favour with Evil Phil? He was the one who was really pushing her to wipe out the resistance, and then when that didn't work, going down with ONLY Ash. Did he know Ash was Voq and would snap?


Spousal Overunit figured out like ten minutes beforehand that Michael was going to smuggle out the data by pretending to space someone. He also thinks that since Voq wasn't turned into Ash in the Mirroverse, maybe Michael can still meet Ash? ....IDK.

Re: 'we are still Starfleet'

[monanotlisa]

Lorca is totally Mirrorverse origin

Aha, someone is fully sold on this now! But I agree; he could have made it back, what, THREE TIMES now, and took none of them? Sure, back home, there is the loss of his command...but unless he knows this universe well, there's the loss of his life, no?

Re: 'we are still Starfleet'

[rivendellrose]

He also thinks that since Voq wasn't turned into Ash in the Mirroverse, maybe Michael can still meet Ash? ....IDK.

I've been wondering about that, too. There's no reason to assume that Ash Tyler in this universe is dead... but there's also no reason to assume he's not as much of a bastard as every other Terran imperial soldier we've met. So that might not be a great thing to hope for.

I do think we'll be seeing Ash-as-Ash again, at least for brief moments (there's no reason to assume the Voq personality is any more stable than the Ash one, at this point...), but that might just be optimism. I can't bring myself to give up on him yet. ♥ Also the writers have spent too much on the arc between Ash and Michael to drop it here.

Lorca you are such a manipulative prick. "We can survive this place together!" AUGH. And the look on his face when she bows to Evil Phil! What a JERK.

He is the best at being the worst. And also, in grand Bryan Fuller tradition, The Worst At Helping.

Heh, when the floppy-haired science geeks go wrong, their counterparts always have nicely styled hair. (Prediction: Paul and luaP are going to get the gang home, not anything else.)

True! And also I totally agree with your prediction. Surely luaP wants his crew back as well? (Okay, this is the Mirrorverse, so maybe, maybe not.)

[lizbee]

So I had a bit of a stroke of genius this morning -- the (formerly) USS Defiant is the emperor's flagship, and it has a cloaking device, and this is why Lorca stayed so long in our universe. That is, he had three goals:

- get Michael Burnham
- make enough spore drive jumps to get Discovery back in one piece, navigator apparently optional
- crack the cloaking device frequency

HE SMIRKED. AS MICHAEL BOWED TO THE EMPEROR, HE FUCKING SMIRKED.

Anyway, that was amazing. Incredibly tense, doesn't hold together all that well (long distance transport?), but it was, without doubt, a ride. And Evil Philippa and her Evil Fascinator at the end.

Also, apparently Saru is cool now. It's actually a shame we got this far into the season before we got to see him in command and doing well at it, not being gaslit by Lorca, fighting with Michael or manipulated by well-intentioned special effects.

[ironed_orchid]

HE SMIRKED. AS MICHAEL BOWED TO THE EMPEROR, HE FUCKING SMIRKED.

RIGHT? He has definitely been there before.

[st_aurafina]

But holy freaking hell is Emperor Georgiou going to be terrifying.

Omg, that was amazing. SHE LOOKED AMAZING and also I was scared. Aside from all the emotional stuff for poor Michael, I was just straight up scared of Philippa's face omg.

For a minute or two, when we knew Voq was leading the resistance, I thought "Wait, does that mean Voq-Ash could maybe bring about peace for the Klingons? Because I can't think of anyone better qualified right now." But then Ash went to pieces and I just don't know.

But I loved beardy!Sarek as a prophet. How awesome - I hope we get to see more of him.

[rivendellrose]

Omg, that was amazing. SHE LOOKED AMAZING and also I was scared. Aside from all the emotional stuff for poor Michael, I was just straight up scared of Philippa's face omg.

I KNOW, RIGHT? I've seen Michelle Yeoh in a fair number of other things, but it's always been stuff where she's very much the good guy. I was not prepared for how terrifying she looked just standing there!

"Wait, does that mean Voq-Ash could maybe bring about peace for the Klingons? Because I can't think of anyone better qualified right now." But then Ash went to pieces and I just don't know.

I think we're still headed there? I am clinging to the hope that Ash and Voq manage to come to a sort of unified personality and that personality can lead for peace. This is probably more desperation than reasonable thought, though.

[ironed_orchid]

That look on Lorca's face when he sees Emperor Georgiou! That has sold me more on mirror Lorca than anything else.

SO MANY FEELINGS!!!

Including WTF is going on with Stamets and why isn't Culber alive yet? I was so afraid that Stamets was going to transcend time and space and find Hugh on some other plane... so at least meeting his mirror self in a spore forest is something I wasn't dreading excepting.

"Shoot first, ask questions later."

This is why there is a goddamn stun setting. Use it!

Sarek had the goatee but is apparently not evil? The goatee suits him.

[rivendellrose]

That look on Lorca's face when he sees Emperor Georgiou! That has sold me more on mirror Lorca than anything else.

YUP.

This is why there is a goddamn stun setting. Use it!

Exactly! I'm not saying kill him off-hand, just STUN him and figure out what to do next when he's not about to--strangle you. Yes, good job, Burnham. *facepalms*

Sarek had the goatee but is apparently not evil? The goatee suits him.

Mirror!Sarek managed to be a more supportive father figure in five minutes than regular Sarek was in 15 years, if you ask me...

[ex_kuromitsu998]

First time commenting here, but this episode compelled me! Damn, it was good. Regardless of having guessed the plot twists before, I was still on the edge of my seat all the while. And damn, that was some really awesome acting from Sonequa Martin-Green and Shazad Latif.

(Also, my inner Lorca/Michael shipper is so happy. So, so happy.)

[rivendellrose]

Regardless of having guessed the plot twists before, I was still on the edge of my seat all the while. And damn, that was some really awesome acting from Sonequa Martin-Green and Shazad Latif.

Same here, though I missed a few (definitely was not expecting Ash to go full-on totally Voq yet, I thought he'd be weebling back and forth for a while yet). Sonequa and Shazad were so freaking amazing in their scenes!

(Also, my inner Lorca/Michael shipper is so happy. So, so happy.)

Heee. Not my cup of tea, but I can definitely see where you and others are seeing it. ♥

[mr_picard]

There wasn't enough Lorca in this episode. *pouts*

Other than that, though, whoa, well done. I loved the ending in particular. Poor Michael.

[rivendellrose]

I'm sure he'll have his moment very soon. ;)

And the ending... yeah, wow. Poor Michael, indeed!

[4thofeleven]

HELL YEAH ANDORIANS!

[rivendellrose]

YES.

[ex_kuromitsu998]

I just realized... We're treating the idea that Lorca is from the Mirrorverse as a fact (I kind of do, too) but what about the second novel coming out in February? If our Lorca is actually Mirror!Lorca who came over sometime during the war, how would that figure into things? Would there be a point in having an entire novel with a Lorca who is not the one we know from the show?

So how is it? The novel is going to feature a different Lorca? Or is it time travel? Lorca is actually Prime/"our" Lorca and he's just shady like that? How long until we find out the truth so I can finally be at peace?!

[rivendellrose]

The novel is another prequel, as I understand it, set during the time when (our) Georgiou was still alive. So my guess is if the mirror!Lorca theory is correct (which it certainly seems to be at this point), then the book would be focusing on the prime!Lorca, who we haven't met.

That's not to say he'd be noticeably different from "our" Lorca, though. Any difference could easily be explained away by him being a younger man, and it might even be set before the disaster with his first command, which would easily account for differences in personality. ...Plus, frankly, the novels are already in a non-canon position. They're trying a teensy bit harder this time around, it seems (David Mack was notified of Burnham's relationship with Sarek and Spock and asked specifically to write something where Spock and Burnham could interact, apparently, in Desperate Hours), but... well, I personally felt like the characterization of Burnham and Georgiou was a bit off.

We've got 4 episodes left, right? I'm guessing we find out the truth about Lorca at the end of next week's episode.

[saturnofthemoon]

I love Ash and didn't want him to be Voq, despite all the evidence to the contrary. The title of this show should be, "No, you can't have nice things."

Given that Tilly, (a cadet in our universe), and Connor, (who barely looks old enough to drink), are both captains in the mirrorverse, I'd say the life expectancy in the military is pretty short. Not sure what this says about Lorca.

I don't even watch Enterprise, but I hope there's a shoutout to Hoshi somewhere along the line.

Is it me or is Georgiou's outfit way confusing? It has a very samurai look to it, but Georgiou is presumably Malaysian.

I forgot how much I missed Georgiou's smile, excuse me while I go make a gifset or two.

[kore]

The title of this show should be, "No, you can't have nice things."

TRUE STORY

....I saw Georgiou was wearing leather? pants (and boots?) and a magnificent gold swishy cape and my brain shorted out.

[saturnofthemoon]

I'm usually shy about self-promotion but here's a poll based on this week's episode.

[kore]

I wanted tickybox options to check all of the ones for Lorca! Hah.

[artemis10002000]

This episode emotionally destroyed me. I don't know how I'm going to wait a week now. I want things to get better already - but I also know it's far more likely they'll keep getting worse.

[kore]

YEAH. THAT.

[nenya_kanadka]

I just finished it!

OH MY GOD IT'S FULL OF FANFIC TROPES

i LOVED IT

EMPEROR GEORGIOU was everything I dreamed and more in her 3 seconds of screentime, and then the previews, ahahaha omg.

I squeaked "poor goddamn Ash" and "poor fucking Michael!" about twenty times while watching this. Also, "OMG what will Rivendellrose think" about most of it. HEE. Andorians! (Well ONE Andorian??)

And I'm like 90% sure Lorca's from the Mirrorverse now, with the face he made when Michael was all !!!!! at finding out who the emperor was.

Also! Sarek is in the resistance! Huh, wonder how that affected mirror!Spock. (Probably made him even more determined to be a good Terran imperial officer.) Voq with decent leadership qualities! Sarek getting a flash of the happier universe! (Gosh I hope he survives that bombing.)

Aaaaand it looks like my crack theory about Stamets being All The Stametses At Once might be true?? I was half-convinced that when he woke up he'd be Mirror Stamets, but now it looks like we'll have to wait till next episode to see how that internal battle plays out. :D

I cannot WAIT for next episode. OH MY GOD

[rivendellrose]

OH MY GOD IT'S FULL OF FANFIC TROPES

i LOVED IT

It is, isn't it? This episode and the last one were both kind of like "Hello, Fanfic Writers! We stole your playbook!" :D And it was marvelous.

EMPEROR GEORGIOU was everything I dreamed and more in her 3 seconds of screentime, and then the previews, ahahaha omg.

*flails like mad* She's TERRIFYING and also HOLY SHIT GORGEOUS, and also TERRIFYING AGAIN. ♥

I squeaked "poor goddamn Ash" and "poor fucking Michael!" about twenty times while watching this. Also, "OMG what will Rivendellrose think" about most of it. HEE. Andorians! (Well ONE Andorian??)

SAME, and D'AWWW. ♥ I'm so flattered to be thought of in the middle of all of that! And yes, ANDORIAN. He is neither Shran nor my Garen, but he is blue and antennae'd and grumpy and carried a giant gun, and therefore I love him immediately and unreservedly, except for that bit where he wanted to shoot Ash. I think (based on IMDB) that his name is Shukar, and already I am wondering what he's like and where he is in "our" universe.

And I'm like 90% sure Lorca's from the Mirrorverse now, with the face he made when Michael was all !!!!! at finding out who the emperor was.

Yeah, that face was pretty much a big old giveaway. Right while Michael is having yet another worst moment of her life in a 24 hour period just FULL of worst moments of her life. What a jerk.

Also! Sarek is in the resistance! Huh, wonder how that affected mirror!Spock. (Probably made him even more determined to be a good Terran imperial officer.) Voq with decent leadership qualities! Sarek getting a flash of the happier universe! (Gosh I hope he survives that bombing.)

I am so much crossing my fingers that Sarek and Voq and Shukar all survive the bombing, because they really were very impressive and generally likeable. ...Hell, I liked this Sarek way better than "our" Sarek. :P

Aaaaand it looks like my crack theory about Stamets being All The Stametses At Once might be true?? I was half-convinced that when he woke up he'd be Mirror Stamets, but now it looks like we'll have to wait till next episode to see how that internal battle plays out. :D

I think you might be on the right track there, yes!

I cannot WAIT for next episode. OH MY GOD

SAME. ♥♥♥

Finally seen it!

[mekare]

Ookay very very good morals you got there. And yes, there was a definite moment for me that made me believe in the mirrorLorca theory - his weird smile when they were talking about the data of the Defiant. Well done Jason Isaacs. (ETA: whoops that was during the episode preview not in the actual episode).

I enjoyed it immensely, in a horrified way. I kept waiting for the Voq/Tyler shoe to drop and got buried under an avalanche.
I can’t wait to see where they go with Stamets (though that tiny scene of him with Culber in his arms was heartbreaking), I loved Tilly standing up for herself und pushing Saru for the command training and saving the day (at least on the Discovery).

I’m anxiously anticipating a meeting between Voq and L’Rell next episode. It would be immensely stupid to put those two together where they could communicate but then, as you pointed out, people did some stupid things already (like keeping secrets that will definitely come back to bite them later).

I hope Michael can push on despite all the blows she’s been dealt. Her in Tyler’s arms was terrible, knowing that anchor and comfort was going to be taken away this episode. And the Gheorgiou! Michael’s face at the end broke my heart.

Re: Finally seen it!

[nenya_kanadka]

I enjoyed it immensely, in a horrified way. I kept waiting for the Voq/Tyler shoe to drop and got buried under an avalanche.

Omg, best description of this arc ever. 😃😃😃😂😂