spacefungusparty | Discovery 1x11: The Wolf Inside

Here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x11: "The Wolf Inside."

Please be aware that there will be spoilery comments on this entry. As always, I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode, and if the conversation hasn't gotten too far without me I will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut.

So, wow, I have to admit I did not expect shit to go down quite this quickly! I admit, part way through the episode I started wondering wtf the last four episodes were going to be about, but, well, I have a theory about that after the end of this episode.

First off, I think we can now safely say that if this episode had a moral, it might be "Don't put the weight of your entire sanity and ability to function as a human being on one person, no matter how much you love them." Ash, baby... my dear Lt. Bambi and also you goddamned face-eating Klingon... you could have avoided all of this to some extent if you'd just admitted way back when, "Hey, I might need help. I am probably not safe to be on duty in my current mental state. I should seek therapy. And not kill the doctor who grounds me out of concern and compassion."

Another good moral might be "When you're in an alternate universe, don't fuck up and call people by names they haven't told you yet," BURNHAM. "I've decided I'm going to call you that," says Burnham of Saru's actual name. Not like he's going to be at all suspicious about that one!

"Tell the people you trust the full truth," might also be a lesson to take from this. Burnham, maybe tell Saru!Prime that you did indeed find him on the Mirror Shenzhou. Saru!Prime, maybe tell Burnham that Culber is dead. You don't know if this information might turn out to be important. And the very fact that you left it out just basically ensured that it will be.

"When your friends start acting erratically, give them a break and encourage them to step back from stressful responsibilities that seem to be taking a toll on them." Hey, Burnham - notice how Ash is having a real hard time coping with this mission all of a sudden? Maybe send him outside to get some air rather than assuming he can handle it when you know damned well that's a 50/50 proposition. That way maybe he won't attack ~~himself~~ the dude you're trying to have peace talks with.

"No good deed ever goes unpunished," as Burnham learns that while she can trick the crew of the Shenzhou into believing that she's just really into hands-on management methods in the destruction of the rebel base (...man, what fandom am I in right now?), there are other people who are less easily fooled.

And of course, the ever-popular "Shoot first, ask questions later." If your boyfriend says that he's a Klingon who killed Dr. Culber and remembers you killing his lord and trying to gouge his eyes out back at the beginning of the season, consider shooting him before he tries to finish you.

For the fans, "Be careful what you wish for" would seem like it might be appropriate wisdom to take to heart. Oh, have I wished for Georgiou back. So many times. As soon as I heard there was going to be a Mirror Universe episode, my first response was "I want Mirror!Georgiou." And I still do. But holy freaking hell is Emperor Georgiou going to be terrifying. I'm not sorry I wished for this, but... well, ask me again next week.

Lastly, a moral purely for me: "When one fan theory turns out to be 100% correct, don't dismiss the next you run across as unlikely." Because I am starting to seriously fall in line with this whole "Lorca is from the Mirror Universe" thing, and I think right now that it might be the best possible explanation of where the next episodes are going to go.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

saturnofthemoon

I love Ash and didn't want him to be Voq, despite all the evidence to the contrary. The title of this show should be, "No, you can't have nice things."

Given that Tilly, (a cadet in our universe), and Connor, (who barely looks old enough to drink), are both captains in the mirrorverse, I'd say the life expectancy in the military is pretty short. Not sure what this says about Lorca.

I don't even watch Enterprise, but I hope there's a shoutout to Hoshi somewhere along the line.

Is it me or is Georgiou's outfit way confusing? It has a very samurai look to it, but Georgiou is presumably Malaysian.

I forgot how much I missed Georgiou's smile, excuse me while I go make a gifset or two.

From:

kore

The title of this show should be, "No, you can't have nice things."

TRUE STORY

....I saw Georgiou was wearing leather? pants (and boots?) and a magnificent gold swishy cape and my brain shorted out.

From:

saturnofthemoon

Yes, Georgiou in leather! At least one of my prayers has been answered.

From:

kore

Michelle Yeoh was also giving Shazad Latif a stiff run for his money at playing a completely different character changing only the vocal and facial expressions. (I'm just always super impressed when actors do that, it seems like magic.) She did have the gorgeous gold swirly cape, however.

From:

rivendellrose

The title of this show should be, "No, you can't have nice things."

Seems accurate to me...

Given that Tilly, (a cadet in our universe), and Connor, (who barely looks old enough to drink), are both captains in the mirrorverse, I'd say the life expectancy in the military is pretty short. Not sure what this says about Lorca.

It says that Tilly is extremely ambitious (in any universe) and that Lorca is a wonderful, horrible cockroach. ♥

I don't even watch Enterprise, but I hope there's a shoutout to Hoshi somewhere along the line.

Lol. My husband kept joking in the lead up to last night about "Boy it's going to be great to see Emperor Hoshi."

Is it me or is Georgiou's outfit way confusing? It has a very samurai look to it, but Georgiou is presumably Malaysian.

It reminded me more of Imperial Chinese court garb, which I thought was a nice touch. I'm no expert in costuming, though, and I haven't seen any screencaps yet, so I'm relying on memory of the brief view we got in the episode and trailer for next week.

I forgot how much I missed Georgiou's smile, excuse me while I go make a gifset or two.

That woman's smile lights up the whole universe. ♥♥♥

From:

saturnofthemoon

Lorca, the human cockroach, I love it! Now I'm tempted to make an icon.

It's probably just my imagination. I'm hardly an expert on East Asian culture. I do appreciate that the women in the mirrorverse continue to wear uniforms that are sexy but empowering, instead of objectifying. I like to think Empress Hoshi made those changes.

From:

rivendellrose

I do appreciate that the women in the mirrorverse continue to wear uniforms that are sexy but empowering, instead of objectifying. I like to think Empress Hoshi made those changes.

I totally agree. Someone (I think it was Mallory Ortberg in one of her reviews for the Vulture?) said that the costumes in the Mirrorverse make especially plain that this is the first Star Trek that's had a woman as its costume designer, and I have to agree with that. Even in the prime version of Discovery I was delighted by the shoes (no high heels in uniform!), but the Mirrorverse was like "okay, wow, this is a HUGE difference." The outfits are all undeniably sexy and stylish, but also undeniably practical and non-objectifying. I love it. ♥ And yes, I'd love to give Hoshi the credit. After the crap she got stuck wearing on Enterprise, I couldn't blame her for making some immediate sartorial changes once she was in charge.

From:

kore

Yeah, I really loved Mirror!Tilly's costuming, which has the long flowing hair and emphasizes her bust but also doesn't show any bare skin and manages to look like badass armour. The women's Mirrorverse costumes in general remind me of the Amazons at the beginning of Wonder Woman.

From:

mekare

Right, that’s a good analogy! Badass but also beautiful.

From:

lizbee

Someone (I think it was Mallory Ortberg in one of her reviews for the Vulture?) said that the costumes in the Mirrorverse make especially plain that this is the first Star Trek that's had a woman as its costume designer, and I have to agree with that.

That was me, but I'm more than happy to be mistaken for Mallory!

From:

rivendellrose

Dang, it I knew I should have looked that up rather than just relying on vague recollection.

Well, like you said, there are MUCH worse people to be mistaken for in the world of meta!

From:

lizbee

She has only just figured out that Lorca has had a slight Southern accent all along, and I don't even know why I find this so hilarious, BUT I DO.

(I feel kind of bad for her, she's so enthusiastic even when she's being critical, and her comments are full of haters. When she gets any at all. Come and play with us, Mallory!)

From:

rivendellrose

I have to admit, I only noticed his accent out because it was mentioned in the interview with the dialect coach... I think the kind of barely-there southern accent that he's doing reads to a West Coast American (or at least to me?) mostly as "Standard American with Slight Folksy Mannerism." Then again, I'm crummy with accents. I can do broad strokes, but the fine gradations often leave me mystified.

Oh, that's awful! I've never looked at the comments on her stuff, and now I'm glad. She seems so genuinely enthusiastic and happy about the show! She should definitely come play with us.

From:

lizbee

I have to admit, I only noticed his accent out because it was mentioned in the interview with the dialect coach... I think the kind of barely-there southern accent that he's doing reads to a West Coast American (or at least to me?) mostly as "Standard American with Slight Folksy Mannerism." Then again, I'm crummy with accents. I can do broad strokes, but the fine gradations often leave me mystified.

I'm not great with US regional accents, but I had read about it well before the series premiered, and listened out for it. (I hit up a Southern friend with a finely-tuned ear, who says it's a really good educated Georgian accent.)

From:

kore

Oh wow, I hadn't realized that, but it sounds right. Do we know where Lorca is from? Memory Alpha doesn't have anything. (Also WTF fortune cookies.)

From:

lizbee

Do we know where Lorca is from? Memory Alpha doesn't have anything.

Nope! The accent was Isaacs' idea; according to Ted Sullivan on Twitter, they haven't pinned down a specific home for him.

(Also WTF fortune cookies.)

Another friend points out the longstanding link between Jewish Americans and Chinese food, and the long history of Jewish communities in the South, and basically, she has a lot of feelings about Jewish!Lorca and they're all great.

From:

kore

Jason Isaacs: making the acting choices that make a white male jerk mysteriously irresistible, 10/10 dude keep it up

Wow that sounds neat! Do you have a link?

From:

lizbee

Jason Isaacs: making the acting choices that make a white male jerk mysteriously irresistible, 10/10 dude keep it up

Right? I watched the Enterprise episodes set in the mirror universe last week, and was reminded how much I hated every single male character, but especially recoiled from the Southerner. I think I associate men with that accent with a sort of gross machismo?

AND YET.

Wow that sounds neat! Do you have a link?

No, this was all by email. I keep nagging her to make a proper post, though.

From:

kore

AND YET. Jason Isaacs, acting WIZARD.

Yes yes, more people should post! I've been enjoying the old-school discussions here so much, it's fabulous.

From:

mekare

Oh I didn’t know that about the costume designer. But it really really shows. I am watching Enterprise atm and T’Pol’s costumes makes me mad every time.

From:

tptigger

I may start referring to Lorca as a cockroach now, so thanks for that!

From:

lynnenne

CAPTAIN COCKROACH.

From:

mekare

excuse me while I go make a gifset or two.

And when you are done you’ll post it in the comm, right?

You are so right about teh true title of the show. Someone should make that a banner.