spacefungusparty | Discovery 1x11: The Wolf Inside

Here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x11: "The Wolf Inside."

Please be aware that there will be spoilery comments on this entry. As always, I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode, and if the conversation hasn't gotten too far without me I will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut.

So, wow, I have to admit I did not expect shit to go down quite this quickly! I admit, part way through the episode I started wondering wtf the last four episodes were going to be about, but, well, I have a theory about that after the end of this episode.

First off, I think we can now safely say that if this episode had a moral, it might be "Don't put the weight of your entire sanity and ability to function as a human being on one person, no matter how much you love them." Ash, baby... my dear Lt. Bambi and also you goddamned face-eating Klingon... you could have avoided all of this to some extent if you'd just admitted way back when, "Hey, I might need help. I am probably not safe to be on duty in my current mental state. I should seek therapy. And not kill the doctor who grounds me out of concern and compassion."

Another good moral might be "When you're in an alternate universe, don't fuck up and call people by names they haven't told you yet," BURNHAM. "I've decided I'm going to call you that," says Burnham of Saru's actual name. Not like he's going to be at all suspicious about that one!

"Tell the people you trust the full truth," might also be a lesson to take from this. Burnham, maybe tell Saru!Prime that you did indeed find him on the Mirror Shenzhou. Saru!Prime, maybe tell Burnham that Culber is dead. You don't know if this information might turn out to be important. And the very fact that you left it out just basically ensured that it will be.

"When your friends start acting erratically, give them a break and encourage them to step back from stressful responsibilities that seem to be taking a toll on them." Hey, Burnham - notice how Ash is having a real hard time coping with this mission all of a sudden? Maybe send him outside to get some air rather than assuming he can handle it when you know damned well that's a 50/50 proposition. That way maybe he won't attack ~~himself~~ the dude you're trying to have peace talks with.

"No good deed ever goes unpunished," as Burnham learns that while she can trick the crew of the Shenzhou into believing that she's just really into hands-on management methods in the destruction of the rebel base (...man, what fandom am I in right now?), there are other people who are less easily fooled.

And of course, the ever-popular "Shoot first, ask questions later." If your boyfriend says that he's a Klingon who killed Dr. Culber and remembers you killing his lord and trying to gouge his eyes out back at the beginning of the season, consider shooting him before he tries to finish you.

For the fans, "Be careful what you wish for" would seem like it might be appropriate wisdom to take to heart. Oh, have I wished for Georgiou back. So many times. As soon as I heard there was going to be a Mirror Universe episode, my first response was "I want Mirror!Georgiou." And I still do. But holy freaking hell is Emperor Georgiou going to be terrifying. I'm not sorry I wished for this, but... well, ask me again next week.

Lastly, a moral purely for me: "When one fan theory turns out to be 100% correct, don't dismiss the next you run across as unlikely." Because I am starting to seriously fall in line with this whole "Lorca is from the Mirror Universe" thing, and I think right now that it might be the best possible explanation of where the next episodes are going to go.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

rivendellrose

He also thinks that since Voq wasn't turned into Ash in the Mirroverse, maybe Michael can still meet Ash? ....IDK.

I've been wondering about that, too. There's no reason to assume that Ash Tyler in this universe is dead... but there's also no reason to assume he's not as much of a bastard as every other Terran imperial soldier we've met. So that might not be a great thing to hope for.

I do think we'll be seeing Ash-as-Ash again, at least for brief moments (there's no reason to assume the Voq personality is any more stable than the Ash one, at this point...), but that might just be optimism. I can't bring myself to give up on him yet. ♥ Also the writers have spent too much on the arc between Ash and Michael to drop it here.

Lorca you are such a manipulative prick. "We can survive this place together!" AUGH. And the look on his face when she bows to Evil Phil! What a JERK.

He is the best at being the worst. And also, in grand Bryan Fuller tradition, The Worst At Helping.

Heh, when the floppy-haired science geeks go wrong, their counterparts always have nicely styled hair. (Prediction: Paul and luaP are going to get the gang home, not anything else.)

True! And also I totally agree with your prediction. Surely luaP wants his crew back as well? (Okay, this is the Mirrorverse, so maybe, maybe not.)

From:

kore

There's no reason to assume that Ash Tyler in this universe is dead... but there's also no reason to assume he's not as much of a bastard as every other Terran imperial soldier we've met.

Maybe he could be undercover!....although I don't remember if we've seen any human rebel types so far. I'm sure they exist, though.

I do think we'll be seeing Ash-as-Ash again, at least for brief moments

Yeah, he's way too important to Michael, who's the hero of the show really, and he's also a parallel figure to her: hybrid human/alien, undercover spy who got in over his head, both of them devoted to Starfleet principles, &c &c. I think you're right the writers have spent too much time setting it up to just drop it. However, I think we might be headed for an emotional dynamic where Voq+Ash is kind of pulled between L'Rell and Michael as moral poles and I am sort of not that interested in that setup. One of

mswyrr's points was that the entire Discovery crew has known Klingons as something to be hated and feared, but now they've seen something like the Federation in a strong coalition led by a Klingon, and Michael was really desperate to figure out how that had happened. So the show can't just throw the Klingons away, or just have Voq lose to Ash, and there's juicy conflict set up in a struggle between Voq and Ash. So I don't think Ash was fake, but I don't think he'll wind up being the dominant personality either. I'm still hoping we get a Voq+Ash mashup, but given how radically different they were this ep, that's hard to imagine right now.

I really have to hand it to Shazad Latif -- I thought he did a great job as Voq even through all that makeup, but he had to switch from Ash to Voq with no makeup, and he was an entirely different person just with his voice and the kind of dead cold-eyed way he was looking at Michael. I mean, it was UPSETTING, but really impressive.

(I bet there's Voq/Michael fic on AO3 already. Heh.)

He is the best at being the worst. And also, in grand Bryan Fuller tradition, The Worst At Helping.

HAH

OMG, LORCA IS HANNIBAL AND MICHAEL IS WILL DDDD:

From:

rivendellrose

I really have to hand it to Shazad Latif -- I thought he did a great job as Voq even through all that makeup, but he had to switch from Ash to Voq with no makeup, and he was an entirely different person just with his voice and the kind of dead cold-eyed way he was looking at Michael. I mean, it was UPSETTING, but really impressive.

Yeahhhhhhhhhh, he did a fantastic job with that scene. He really impressed me this whole season with how he handled the PTSD and trauma and then last week when he was clearly shifting back and forth between Voq and Tyler and Tyler was coming apart at the seams. Then this. It was truly impressive to watch him shift gears and really become Voq again, but without the makeup.

(I bet there's Voq/Michael fic on AO3 already. Heh.)

Oh god, no bet, it's totally there.

OMG, LORCA IS HANNIBAL AND MICHAEL IS WILL DDDD:

Pretty much. There are differences, obviously, but... still.

From:

kore

Yeah, Lorca hasn't eaten anybody, YET. (Altho we've already had canon cannibalism!)

From:

rivendellrose

You just had to bring that up, didn't you? :P

Those early weeks watching Ash Tyler be the most adorable thing that ever adorabled, and in the back of my mind all the time it's "Isn't he cute? HE ATE GEORGIOU'S FACE."

And then of course the show had to make clear that he didn't KNOW he was Voq, so I fell for him anyway, the bastard.

From:

mekare

but he had to switch from Ash to Voq with no makeup, and he was an entirely different person just with his voice and the kind of dead cold-eyed way he was looking at Michae

Urgh that switch to cold-eyed was excellent.

Hannibal!Lorca and Will!Michael. IT MAKES So MUCH SENSE

From:

nostalgia

With all that coalition of hope stuff I was wondering if Ash/Voq will see a brighter side to the humans if they treat him semi-decently as a prisoner. Which is probably unlikely, but hey.

From:

rivendellrose

Yeah, that does appear to be our best bet as far as Voq goes. I'm kind of also hoping he might integrate Ash's memories and realize that hey, Humans aren't so bad, this one seems nice, and that one over there, too, and that one... but, then again, Ash has about a bazillion reasons to hate Klingons, so that might not work out so well.

From:

kore

I really think they're doing a parallel between Michael and Voq as hybrids who have been distrusted by both cultures they're part of, so I'm betting they're going for a kinder gentler Prime!Voq by the end. Maybe? -- I just keep remembering how Georgiou freaked out after Michael's mutiny and basically accused her of betraying humankind (paraphrasing), while Michael also never fit in with the Vulcans. Michael was born human but is basically culturally Vulcan, while Voq grew up Klingon and went through the freaky surgical construction and maybe also some kind of psychic equivalent -- they were talking about personality transfers earlier, although it's not clear whether the Klingons kind of gutted the Prime!Ash's mind and stuck it on top of Voq, or if it was a copy. Prime!Ash is most likely dead, altho I wonder if we'll see the Mirror Terran version.

Also just realized Shazad was playing about four parts: Ash, Prime!Voq-in-Ash (no makeup), Mirror!Voq, and the tragic slippery terrain between Ash and Voq. Really fucking impressive.

From:

rivendellrose

Yeah, those parallels are definitely there. Someone (I think it was selenak?) did a point-by-point analysis of the pilot, breaking down exactly how many things were paralleled between Voq and Michael, and it was seriously impressive. Down to both of them interrupting their respective leaders while talking with higher authorities (an admiral and the heads of the Klingon houses). They're mirrors of each other, absolutely.

The original Prime!Ash is totally dead, I agree. One of the tip-offs early on was "Nobody survives seven months of Klingon torture!" ...Which they were 100% right about, as it turns out. Besides, L'Rell isn't stupid enough to leave a spare lingering when he might screw up her plan by somehow escaping or getting rescued. I imagine, at most, they kept him alive until Voq/Ash's transformation was complete, to make sure everything looked right, and then offed him. ...Best we can hope for him is that it happened quickly and he didn't have any idea about his duplicate's existence.

Not to mention the times at the beginning when he was just plain playing Voq. Shazad did a FABULOUS job with all of those roles.