rivendellrose: (Lt. Bambi)
[personal profile] rivendellrose posting in [community profile] spacefungusparty
Here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x11: "The Wolf Inside."

Please be aware that there will be spoilery comments on this entry. As always, I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode, and if the conversation hasn't gotten too far without me I will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut.



So, wow, I have to admit I did not expect shit to go down quite this quickly! I admit, part way through the episode I started wondering wtf the last four episodes were going to be about, but, well, I have a theory about that after the end of this episode.

First off, I think we can now safely say that if this episode had a moral, it might be "Don't put the weight of your entire sanity and ability to function as a human being on one person, no matter how much you love them." Ash, baby... my dear Lt. Bambi and also you goddamned face-eating Klingon... you could have avoided all of this to some extent if you'd just admitted way back when, "Hey, I might need help. I am probably not safe to be on duty in my current mental state. I should seek therapy. And not kill the doctor who grounds me out of concern and compassion."

Another good moral might be "When you're in an alternate universe, don't fuck up and call people by names they haven't told you yet," BURNHAM. "I've decided I'm going to call you that," says Burnham of Saru's actual name. Not like he's going to be at all suspicious about that one!

"Tell the people you trust the full truth," might also be a lesson to take from this. Burnham, maybe tell Saru!Prime that you did indeed find him on the Mirror Shenzhou. Saru!Prime, maybe tell Burnham that Culber is dead. You don't know if this information might turn out to be important. And the very fact that you left it out just basically ensured that it will be.

"When your friends start acting erratically, give them a break and encourage them to step back from stressful responsibilities that seem to be taking a toll on them." Hey, Burnham - notice how Ash is having a real hard time coping with this mission all of a sudden? Maybe send him outside to get some air rather than assuming he can handle it when you know damned well that's a 50/50 proposition. That way maybe he won't attack himself the dude you're trying to have peace talks with.

"No good deed ever goes unpunished," as Burnham learns that while she can trick the crew of the Shenzhou into believing that she's just really into hands-on management methods in the destruction of the rebel base (...man, what fandom am I in right now?), there are other people who are less easily fooled.

And of course, the ever-popular "Shoot first, ask questions later." If your boyfriend says that he's a Klingon who killed Dr. Culber and remembers you killing his lord and trying to gouge his eyes out back at the beginning of the season, consider shooting him before he tries to finish you.

For the fans, "Be careful what you wish for" would seem like it might be appropriate wisdom to take to heart. Oh, have I wished for Georgiou back. So many times. As soon as I heard there was going to be a Mirror Universe episode, my first response was "I want Mirror!Georgiou." And I still do. But holy freaking hell is Emperor Georgiou going to be terrifying. I'm not sorry I wished for this, but... well, ask me again next week.

Lastly, a moral purely for me: "When one fan theory turns out to be 100% correct, don't dismiss the next you run across as unlikely." Because I am starting to seriously fall in line with this whole "Lorca is from the Mirror Universe" thing, and I think right now that it might be the best possible explanation of where the next episodes are going to go.

Date: 2018-01-15 05:41 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
That last scene makes no sense. Seriously, why would the Emperor make a special trip over what is, at most, a 90 minute delay in the timeline? Even if she feels this is worth checking into, surely it's better to delegate.

Date: 2018-01-15 05:50 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
Clearly nobody's seen her face because they're too busy bowing, except that Burnham either was too much in shock or too slow to pick up on that.

Date: 2018-01-15 06:00 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
True, true. I mean, she made the elementary mistake of calling Saru by his freaking name.

Date: 2018-01-15 06:25 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I thought she was in complete shock after the rebellion was apparently wiped out, yeah, especially since she admired the coalition-building so much and had repeatedly tried to save them, and they had helped her. Without Ash, without the idea of the Federation somehow surviving even in this verse, and without Saru and the rest of her crew, she's really ungrounded. PLUS, then her mentor and the woman who basically symbolizes Starfleet in the show is the supreme evil leader? BSOD for sure.

(Lorca didn't bow either, heh.)

Date: 2018-01-15 08:01 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: Michael Burnham, half-profile, blue-and-silver, in her uniform (michael burnham - dsc)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
I think she set this as a trap for Burnham

Hmm...Giorgiou's favorite, though? I guess small details of Burnham's response may set her off even before this particular mission, so it's well within the realm of possibility. We don't know what happens in fascistoid regimes in Captain's quarters between Emperors and their mentees, only that they're private: Did Burnham send a nightly chat to The Emperor, proudly relaying her mayhem like a cat bringing dead mice? Were they both paranoid fuckers using some kind of code, maybe a dead man's switch, only virtual?

Date: 2018-01-15 08:04 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
Did Giorgiou actually send Lorca to kill Burnham originally? These and other questions will be answered next week and not a minute sooner!

Date: 2018-01-15 12:22 pm (UTC)
schneefink: River walking among trees, from "Safe" (Default)
From: [personal profile] schneefink
Even if she is her favorite, the Emperor would not fully trust her, and especially if Burnham claims to have played dead for a while (do we know how long?) without telling her and/or the Emperor and mirror!Burnham had their own secret signals/codewords/message traditions/etc. The set-up being a trap is the only way the Emperor showing up makes sense to me. Especially in under an hour! Lucky for Michael that she had time to send an encrypted message to the Discovery.

Date: 2018-01-15 03:56 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, I was remembering Michael's descriptions of the Terran courage as being painted-over rust, and I think they're all paranoid to the nth degree. Also, someone -- Lorca, the cyborg woman, whoever -- could have ratted out Michael's refusing to carry out the order to the Emperor.

Date: 2018-01-15 07:11 pm (UTC)
monanotlisa: symbol, image, ttrpg, party, pun about rolling dice and getting rolling (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
That makes total sense. Yeah.

Date: 2018-01-16 04:35 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Keep Calm And Simply Walk Into Mordor (@ keep calm Boromir)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Hmm...Giorgiou's favorite, though?

Being the favourite of a scary emperor is actually a pretty dangerous career, if fiction has taught me anything. The higher they rise, the faster the fall, especially if the boss has any inkling they might be going to betray them.

...why don't I have an Emperor Georgiou icon for these conversations yet? (It can't be because I only finished the episode fifteen minutes ago, lol.)

Date: 2018-01-16 05:28 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
"Humour is such a SUBJECTIVE thing, isn't it, Mollari?"

Date: 2018-01-20 09:21 am (UTC)
mekare: Flower patterned Japanese paper (Default)
From: [personal profile] mekare
I think she set this as a trap for Burnham.

Absolutely. Mirror!Philippa would be extremely paranoid and cunning - she is the Empress after all.

Date: 2018-01-15 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ex_kuromitsu998
To be honest if I was Emperor of an empire where I need to watch my back all the time, and I received news that a powerful person believed dead has suddenly shown up, reclaimed her ship and then proceeded to ignore my orders... I most definitely wouldn't delegate. I'd go there myself, prepared to deal with all sorts of betrayals and traps and backstabbing.

Date: 2018-01-15 05:19 pm (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
I guess, but it seems like a bad idea to *admit* you're terrified for your life.

Date: 2018-01-15 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ex_kuromitsu998
IMO it's not necessarily sending the message that she's terrified (she most likely isn't, after all), she just doesn't trust Michael and is not hiding that fact. Mirror!Philippa probably got where she is by murdering whoever stood in her way, she's had at least one attempt at getting overthrown (by Lorca), and her entire Empire runs on paranoia. There's no reason why she wouldn't be automatically distrustful toward anyone with enough power to make an attempt on her position or even her life.

By sending someone else to check on Michael (and Lorca) she would risk being out of the loop. IMO it makes more sense to go there in person and just deal with the situation without any middleman she may or may not trust.

(Then again, it all may just be a ruse.)

Date: 2018-01-15 06:29 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, I didn't think she was so much terrified as "I'm here to squash you like a bug." I also have to wonder if she knows about Mirror!Lorca going to Primeverse, and if she already suspects our Michael is impersonating hers.

Date: 2018-01-16 04:38 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: its purely carnal qualities outweighed its metaphorical significance (@ carnal qualities)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
As the kids say these days, +1, or "THIS!" in the parlance of my people. :D :D :D

/not very ashamed at all

Date: 2018-01-16 05:30 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
And they all have SUCH chemistry with each other.

Date: 2018-01-20 09:22 am (UTC)
mekare: Flower patterned Japanese paper (Default)
From: [personal profile] mekare
Absolutely. I for one am so here for mirror!Philippa and mirror!Michael as a pairing (even considering the horrible consequences for *our* Michael)

Date: 2018-01-15 04:42 pm (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Georgiou)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
I'm wondering if the transmission itself was actually from lightyears away, especially since the emperor is so isolated that the rebels didn't know her identity.

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