Discovery 2x04: An Obol for Charon

[rivendellrose]

Here is your belated discussion post for Discovery 2x04: "An Obol for Charon." Apologies for the delay, I was out all afternoon/evening yesterday and forgot to create the post before I left!

I haven't seen the episode yet (alas!), so you're on you're own for discussion. Enjoy!

Comments

[rivendellrose]

Yeah, that's my guess -- at the end there he was sounding very much as if he might go back to his world to let his people know that they've been fooled and (presumably) attempt to start a rebellion of some kind against the culling. It'll be interesting to see if it's played as treason (it is against her order, of course, and technically against the Prime Directive) or as entirely justifiable (because, well... they're being murdered under false pretenses).

[garpu]

Yeah, I mean, the Prime Directive has always struck me as a bit silly. A culture can know there are other species out there, know that there's other worlds besides their own, but not have the technology to visit those worlds. Or what about worlds that skipped over warp technology and use something else? And then it, like the first Law of Time in Doctor Who, winds up doing more harm than good when something may need intervention.

IMO, Saru finding a way to help his people is no different than the Discovery saving New Eden.

[rivendellrose]

There's a sense in which I agree with it (basically, don't go running around changing other cultures willy-nilly, and definitely don't go colonizing/oppressing them for your own gain!), but there's another sense in which, as you say, it can start to get pretty ridiculous. As well as more honored in the breach than the observance. :P

I'd have to agree with you on that, and I suspect Pike will see it that way as well.

[garpu]

And with the Ba'ul, who's to say the Prime Directive hasn't already been broken?

[rivendellrose]

Yeah, that's a wrinkle that I think they've slightly forgotten (or at least haven't come to yet). It looked from the short episode a while back like the Ba'ul were significantly more technologically advanced than the Kelpiens, so if they're preying on this less advanced species, isn't it within Starfleet regs to stop that? Or does the fact that the two species (if I'm remembering correctly) are both native to this world negate that? That's a gray area I've never totally been clear on.

[nenya_kanadka]

I am curious about this as well! It wasn't clear if the Ba'ul (side note: rivendellrose, I keep making the Ba'ul --> Ba'al --> Goa'uld connection too :D) were a) an alien-to-Kaminar species or b) a predator species native to the same planet.

If it's the first one, they've already been fucked with by an outside power, and it seems wrong for the Federation to know that that's happening and not do anything to help. There are totally problems with an outside power swanning in and going "We'll fix everything!" especially if the reason they're actually there is selfish (for resources or something, for example). But at the same time...it doesn't seem right to just leave that to happen. It's not like a predator/prey cycle among animals, because the Kelpiens are people just as much as the Ba'ul are.

Of course, then there's my theory that the Ba'ul are Kelpiens: Kelpiens after the ganglia fall off. What if they go from being afraid of everything to being a lot more aggressive?

That would be...even more complicated. I guess we'll see which way it shakes out, because I do get the impression that Saru wants to go back to his planet (and it seems like a dangling plot thread if he doesn't get to on the show).

[rivendellrose]

Oh, thank goodness, I'm glad it's not just me. XD

Of course, then there's my theory that the Ba'ul are Kelpiens: Kelpiens after the ganglia fall off. What if they go from being afraid of everything to being a lot more aggressive?

I've been wondering about that, too. It might (would probably?) mean that the "culling" wasn't actually killing the Kelpiens who were taken, but rather uplifting them into this other society or doing... something unknown with the ones who don't take to that, and I sort of think that's a cop out in that the entire premise of Kelpien society from word one has been that they're a prey species and there's a predator species as well. But this would be a typical Star Trek turnaround, and it would fit in with the weird low unpleasant note that appeared in the music when Saru talked about feeling powerful.

I feel 100% confident we'll be going back to Kaminar this season either way -- I'm pretty sure we saw Saru's sister in the season trailer. How soon and what it will lead to... that's another question.

[kore]

Yeah, I dunno if the other little short films were also setups, but we've gotten a lot of seeding re Saru and his home planet and sister so far.

[kore]

Yeek. Yeah, that moment with Saru realizing his whole species has been lied to and betrayed, it seemed like he was very close to going back there and telling the truth. (And who could blame him.) I hope he doesn't get all ragey and whatever, although they do seem to be doing a pon farr parallel.