Discovery 1x09: Into the Forest I Go

[rivendellrose]

Sorry for the delay! Here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x09: "Into the Forest I Go."

Please be aware that there will be spoilery comments on this entry. As before, I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode, and if the conversation hasn't gotten too far without me I will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut.

Comments

[nenya_kanadka]

I'm beginning to wonder if "downloaded Voq's memories as a sleeper personality" is the technobabble explanation if they DO go that route.

Idk, can't decide what scenario I want to be true OR what I think they'll actually do. It's a very confusing time in my brain!

[rivendellrose]

I think I'm showing my DS9 background (and my obsession with the Ileana Ghemor storyline), because I assume that there was a real Ash Tyler, that real Ash Tyler was captured, tortured for information, and killed, and the Ash Tyler we see before us now thinks he's that Ash Tyler, but he is actually a surgically-altered Voq with implanted memories that suppress his real memories and personality.

Ie, I apparently think that the House Mokai Klingons of the 23rd century are as technologically advanced at infiltration as the Cardassian Obsidian Order of the 24th... which makes no flipping sense at all.

And yet, the Orions of the 23rd century were apparently able to change one of their people into an Andorian well enough to fool other Andorians, even though Bones was able to figure it out pretty quickly once he had him in sickbay. So... it's possible maybe?

I also hold out secret hope that they may have actually used the Augment virus from ENT to perform some of Ash's transformation, because I am completely insane and it would make me laugh if they'd kept that virus around for no apparent reason for all these years, just in case it came in handy to transform a Klingon into a Human. CONTINUITY OUT OF DISCONTINUITY.

[nenya_kanadka]

Hee! I am not obsessed with Illiana Ghemor exactly but I adore Kira and that episode made a big enough impression on me (Kira's sheer horror at the idea! also she was pretty hot in that getup) that I'm like "Oh of course they can do that in Star Trek!" without even having stopped to think about the biotech differential between House Mokai, 23rd c., and the Obsidian Order a hundred years later! :P

That's a good data point about the Orions though. Sarek's in this thing; obviously the writers will have watched Journey To Babel at some point! HMM

ETA: And it's not too out there that the Klingon House of Spies could have Orion Syndicate contacts. Further hmmm!

Obviously something doesn't add up in Ash's memories, because L'Rell was off with Voq slowly running out of food for most of the seven months he remembers being in her tender care. I'm pretty much convinced at this point that there originally was a human Ash Tyler--though whether he's dead and being impersonated by a completely different species, is alive but sharing a physical body with Voq (currently suppressed) or what, I am much less sure about.

The augment retrovirus theory wouuuuld fill in a lot of the holes here, wouldn't it. Hmmmmmm.

[rivendellrose]

I adore Kira, and I also adore the Cardassians. Nana Visitor as a Cardassian pretty much blew my mind, and then I loved what they did with her and her Cardassian "dad." He was so nice! I always hoped we'd find Ileana / Iliana at some point.

Sarek's in this thing; obviously the writers will have watched Journey To Babel at some point! HMM

Plus, all the references to the Andorians. I swear, nothing gets me more on conspiracy-theory mode than the references to the Andorians in DSC, and I am halfway convinced that they've been a nod reminding us of the thing with the Orion saboteur in "Journey to Babel." Otherwise I just can't figure out wtf they're trying to do, apart from drive me crazy by never showing my favorite aliens.

The augment retrovirus is exactly the kind of "science" magic that could be made to do pretty much anything, and it's a gun hanging on the wall in the sense of canon that could be resurrected. But they haven't made the slightest mention of it, which... at this point, is a little suspicious. If they were planning to use that as part of the big reveal, I would have expected them to sneak in some random reference to it, or at least the Eugenics War in a general sense, at some point prior to this point. I don't know!

[cheyinka]

"even though Bones was able to figure it out pretty quickly once he had him in sickbay" is exactly my thought re: whoever-the-prisoner-that-Lorca-rescued is. If Klingons had katras, which they don't, sticking Voq's katra into Ash Tyler would work fine, but that might be a little too weird.

On the other hand if the augment virus can melt Klingon face bones, I suppose it could rearrange internal organs too?

[nenya_kanadka]

Yeah, med bay would definitely pick something up! Only a certain amount of difference in expected readings can be accounted for by "Well, he's been under major stress" etc.

On the third pseudopod, I secretly wonder if Lorca's eye thing points up something iffy. Like him wanting to punish himself by not getting them fixed makes tons of sense. But there's so much else shady about that guy that I half believe he's covering up something that space!eye surgery would reveal.

[rivendellrose]

Only a certain amount of difference in expected readings can be accounted for by "Well, he's been under major stress" etc.

Thank you, now I'm picturing Culber doing a medical examination of Tyler when he was brought aboard and just, like, "Well, he appears to have twice as many chambers in his heart as he should, but... Stop it, Paul! Stop trying to juggle those syringes! ...Eh, he's been under a lot of really serious stress. I'm sure he's fine. I need to go stop Mr. Fungus from destroying the rest of my medbay!"

Seems unlikely, like you said. And also delightful. XD

The eye thing... man, I don't even know what to do with that. Could be a red herring, could be THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING EVER. Especially since they brought it up again this week. It's intriguing, I just can't quite figure out where it fits!

[kore]

now I'm picturing Culber doing a medical examination of Tyler when he was brought aboard and just, like, "Well, he appears to have twice as many chambers in his heart as he should, but... Stop it, Paul! Stop trying to juggle those syringes! ...Eh, he's been under a lot of really serious stress. I'm sure he's fine. I need to go stop Mr. Fungus from destroying the rest of my medbay!"

//cracks the hell up

I can't decide whether the eye thing is Metaphorically Significant or some kind of clue about....idek, retinal scanning maybe? A transmitting device? Evidence of shroom use?

[anon001]

On the third pseudopod, I secretly wonder if Lorca's eye thing points up something iffy. Like him wanting to punish himself by not getting them fixed makes tons of sense. But there's so much else shady about that guy that I half believe he's covering up something that space!eye surgery would reveal.

This is exactly what I've been wondering from the beginning. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be kept awake at night out of guilt for his past actions, you know. Well, eventually we'll see.