spacefungusparty | Pretty Positive Poll

When

kore facepalmed post-finale, I think we were all her -- predictions, it turns out, are HARD with this show! Good. ;)

But then I thought, hey, what did we get right?

Under the cut you will find the way to find out. It will even be anonymous to lessen any competitive element. Not that you can't gloat/cry/do both in the comments.

On the STAR TREK: DISCO finale:

Poll #19497 Pretty Positive Poll

This poll is anonymous.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 22

What DID you predict?

View Answers

Michael Burnham saving the day, courage in her heart and moral compass firmly in hand
20 (90.9%)

Tilly helping Michael save the day with Technology and Pure Goodness
15 (68.2%)

Tilly joining Michael's stand and not even thinking about it seriously not even
11 (50.0%)

Saru joining Michael's stand
15 (68.2%)

STARFLEET SPEECH!
11 (50.0%)

Ash getting to use his Klingon memories
9 (40.9%)

L'Rell saying the Klingon equivalent of FUCK YOU to the request for insight into Qo'noS
6 (27.3%)

Ash and Michael are the sweetest and darkest and there are tears (yours, too)
6 (27.3%)

Detmer getting to say a line
2 (9.1%)

L'Rell getting to BE THE KLINGON LEADER
5 (22.7%)

Kat Cornwell being crucial to this world in the balance
4 (18.2%)

Ash leaving...
3 (13.6%)

...to walk into the sunset with L'Rell
2 (9.1%)

EM-peror Pippa getting off
7 (31.8%)

Hat-tip not just to kore but also

rivendellrose for her bingo cards and

saturnofthemoon for polling so well and so wisely.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

nenya_kanadka

Which getting off is which, though, that might screw up your statistics. :D

I badly wanted and sort of hoped she'd get to slide off into the shadows to return at the appropriate future moment, so I voted for that one, but I would never have predicted the leather corset scene. OH wait though, I need to go change my answer, because after seeing that one promo shot with her bare shoulders and the gun I was convinced she'd either sleep with someone or be woken up from sleep and go for the gun. ("Are we going to get a Lethe redux?" I wondered, "That would be a bit too on the nose, wouldn't it.")

*goes and ticks all the getting off boxes, just like the EM-peror*

PS: Seeing all those lovely things that happened all listed side by side there feels really wonderful. THIS IS STARFLEET.

PPS: Now I really want fic of what happened between the confrontation with Kat on the bridge and the enactment of Michael's third way plan. How intense must Kat have been in trying to get approval for the new plan through the (last remaining, like, six of them) people over her head? Because she's a vice admiral and there was definitely someone else above her who cleared the bomb plan before. She had to be full on "Fix this, Kat!" with herself right then.

Edited Date: 2018-02-14 08:59 am (UTC)

From:

monanotlisa

I totally should have italicized the last one. ;) Ah, well.

From:

nenya_kanadka

Hee. I eventually figured that must be how you'd meant it, since the second one depends for its humour on the non-sex meaning of the first one. :D

Edited Date: 2018-02-14 09:37 pm (UTC)

From:

lizbee

It definitely looks like Kat might be the highest ranked flag officer left alive after Starbase One -- at least, we only see the same group of admirals after that, and Memory Alpha tells me they're all rear admirals, so a rung below her.

But she has to be answering to the civilian government, right? Did she run screaming into the Federation version of the Oval Office? Was the Federation Council sitting? (Is there, like, a bicameral system? I have lots of questions about Federation democracy.)

IN CONCLUSION: promote Kat Cornwell.

From:

monanotlisa

Well, Kat made a HUGE misstep there...
...but it’s not like anybody stopped her, or proposed other plans, and she DID relent, if only under pressure.
So ultimately I concur.

From:

nenya_kanadka

Oh, she absolutely did fuck up, as did Sarek. It sounded to me like the role of the two of them in this clusterfuck was to take the Emperor's proposal to (civilian? Starfleet? Sarek took the one, Kat the other?) authorities, because of that holo-phonecall where Sarek is like, "Everybody agrees it's the only choice; time to get this show on the road."

So Kat was both pivotal in the blow-up-Q'onos plan getting any traction in the first place and also not the one who made the final call. Then she has the job of being the face of that terrible decision (which she already knows deep down is horrific, but has signed onto and is emotionally invested in as the only option she can see) to the Discovery crew.

Which therefore means she probably couldn't turn this boat around by herself either. Then again, it could fall under her authority as the commander in the field when new intelligence came to light (ie Michael's plan re: L'Rell).

Basically I am fascinated by how really bad a decision that was, how much of a betrayal of both herself and Starfleet ideals, and also with the fact that she DID swerve at the last second. And very invested in Kat not getting the entire blame when she wasn't the only person who made it happen. (Just because, dudebros gonna blame it all on the lady. Even if it was only half her--which is still huge, don't get me wrong.)

Edited Date: 2018-02-14 09:09 pm (UTC)

From:

lizbee

Basically I am fascinated by how really bad a decision that was, how much of a betrayal of both herself and Starfleet ideals, and also with the fact that she DID swerve at the last second.

SHE HAS SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH MICHAEL NOW

BUT ON A MUCH BIGGER SCALE

THEY SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS ~~IN BED~~

From:

nenya_kanadka

Shit, you're right. They do. 😍 It's like this show has some kind of THEME going on here about failure and redemption and second chances and trauma and "crawling your way back" and female characters who aren't disposable even after epic moral disasters.

(ALSO YES, they need to talk. I'll read the porn version too. :D)

From:

kore

It's like this show has some kind of THEME going on here about failure and redemption and second chances and trauma and "crawling your way back" and female characters who aren't disposable even after epic moral disasters.

SCIFI WITH POLITICAL LIBERAL THEMES, GET OUTTA TOWN

From:

kore

....YES. YES THEY SHOULD.

From:

nenya_kanadka

Somebody wrote it for me for Disco Hiatus Fest! It's angsty self-medicating but still holding on by her fingernails Kat and the Michael parts are really sweet.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/13721283

From:

monanotlisa

Thank you for the link! I do love that it's a femslash story, too. ;)

From:

nenya_kanadka

I'm so exceedingly pleased at the great femslash this fandom is producing. :D

From:

monanotlisa

I am fascinated by how really bad a decision that was, how much of a betrayal of both herself and Starfleet ideals, and also with the fact that she DID swerve at the last second. And very invested in Kat not getting the entire blame when she wasn't the only person who made it happen. (Just because, dudebros gonna blame it all on the lady. Even if it was only half her--which is still huge, don't get me wrong.)

This whole comment is a great analysis -- yeah, okay; I feel you.

From:

lizbee

And she didn't make it alone. Ultimately the buck stops with the Federation Council, although you could probably argue that the order to destroy Qo'noS was illegal. But that is a whole separate issue, and one that I don't fully understand on account of not being a lawyer.

From:

nenya_kanadka

You're more succinct than me. :D

I mean, emotionally--Kat's still going to blame herself. And there's a part of that blame that's legitimate. But she's not an emperor whose word is law, so...blame proportionate to power. And she jumped the right way in the end.

And she still may never entirely forgive herself.

From:

lizbee

I think ... "just following orders" doesn't fly when you're a senior officer, especially not at flag rank, and "What should have happened to Vice Admiral Cornwell?" will make a fascinating essay topic for young Picards and Siskos and Janeways.

She should at least be retired, along with Sarek, and all the elected officials should have their careers come to abrupt democratic ends. But ... there's no one else to do the work of rebuilding, and apparently I'm more Catholic than I realised, because I quite like the idea of moral redemption through good works and rebuilding.

From:

nenya_kanadka

Oh for sure. She was absolutely in it up to her neck. And bears a huge amount of the responsibility. They really all should have lost their jobs, and the thing with invoking "history will judge us" is that it eventually does.

(Though essays would depend on any of this ever being declassified.)

I was never Catholic, but I think the "you fucked up, now you're irredeemable" tropes of my youth lead me very strongly now in a similar direction to you. You can't go back and undo what you did, and you can't really even make it okay. But it matters where you go from here. And the rest of the universe is better served by rebuilding and a rededication to your principles than by hiding in a hole forever. (Although you do have to face down your own darkness.)

(And it would hurt me even more than it already does to know that My Favourite Admiral went that far into the dark side, if I believed she couldn't come back from it. And I'd feel even more layers of feelings if they'd actually destroyed Q'onoS. And and and. *continued primal screaming about Kat Cornwell forever*)

(But if Emperor Pippa can maybe get a redemption arc or at least a "learning to be slightly better" arc, I think there's room for compassion for Kat.)

From:

monanotlisa

You can't go back and undo what you did, and you can't really even make it okay. But it matters where you go from here. And the rest of the universe is better served by rebuilding and a rededication to your principles than by hiding in a hole forever. (Although you do have to face down your own darkness.)

Mmh. Yes. And this show has Michael Burnham, who IN MY OPINION did The Right Thing in the Battle at the Binary Stars, but of course that's not what Starfleet thinks, or even can think, as the militarized organization it is. So second chances are A Thing.

From:

nenya_kanadka

It definitely looks like Kat might be the highest ranked flag officer left alive after Starbase One -- at least, we only see the same group of admirals after that, and Memory Alpha tells me they're all rear admirals, so a rung below her.

Jesus. That's even more devastating than I thought. ALL FUCKING GONE. (Maybe that's why so many of the Starfleet brass in Kirk's day come across as a bit incompetent/out of touch--the seasoned ones ALL DIED.)

And I mean, if somebody has to literally BE Starfleet command as well as representing them in the narrative, I am very comfortable with it being Kat Cornwell. But sweet hell. *shakes head*

SO MANY questions about Federation democracy, lol. The halls are paved with handwavium.

Kat storms into President Roslin's office: STOP THE PRESSES, LAURA.
Roslin (or equivalent): This better be good.
Kat: We don't have to do this.
Roslin: Do I have to play your own arguments back to you, Admiral?
Kat: *explains, vehemently, very fast*
Roslin: We can't just trust this random Klingon prisoner because you think you have some kind of a bond!
Kat: It will work.
Roslin: You just...know that. We'd be trusting a mutineer's ability to get the evil clone to back off so the Klingon who almost killed you can...what?
Kat: ... *determined Kat face*
Roslin: It's so fucking crazy it just might work.

Promote Saru, promote Kat, AND GET THEM BOTH THERAPY.

Edited Date: 2018-02-14 09:34 pm (UTC)

From:

kore

Jesus. That's even more devastating than I thought. ALL FUCKING GONE. (Maybe that's why so many of the Starfleet brass in Kirk's day come across as a bit incompetent/out of touch--the seasoned ones ALL DIED.)

OMG, that's awful. Poor Kat.

From:

nenya_kanadka

...I mean, do we even know if Terral is alive.

From:

monanotlisa

Promote Saru, promote Kat, AND GET THEM BOTH THERAPY.

LOL. Yes!

From:

monanotlisa

Right; there has to be a civilian government. The one thing that bugs me about Star Trek as a show is that it is still a very militarized version of the future. I understand the Discovery and other have to be ship-shape, so to speak, and that having a private company run a space program would be even more dystopian. But, as this show says...if through the mouth of a dubious character, Context Is King.

In any case, definitely promote Kat Cornwell! She did make the right call, and we are all entitled to second chances.

From:

monanotlisa

I gotta say I’m deadly impressed with one-third guessing both Pippa’s sexy shenanigans and escape into the underworld.

From:

nenya_kanadka

It's Emperor Pippa, QED. 😂

From:

rivendellrose

I never in a million years would have called Ash staying alive to stride off into the sunset with L'Rell. That possibility never entered my mind. I might have guessed that Georgiou would get off (in one or both ways), but I honestly was too busy being terrified about her and Ash dying to think clearly.

I am so pleased, though. ♥

And I am also delighted that people were amused by the bingo cards. Maybe I will find ways to make more when the show finally comes back again.

From:

nenya_kanadka

Those were excellent bingo cards and should become A Tradition around here.

From:

kore

The cards were awesome!

From:

monanotlisa

Ash staying alive to stride off into the sunset with L'Rell. That possibility never entered my mind.

ME NEITHER, AND I AM SO HAPPY. Just that he is alive -- because it keeps our options open to bring him back, if only in fiction. It's a bit of a WTF decision still, unless a) Ash has much stronger feelings for L'Rell herself than shown in canon, or b) Ash is a bit of a Sad Drama Queen and this is his idea of a Flounce. But either way, that can be Fixed. ;)

From:

kore

I inspired a poll! \o/

....did I fill this one out already? I think I did. Yes.

I love how everyone did predict "Michael Burnham will save the day," and that was pretty much what happened.

From:

monanotlisa

Hehe, right?

I am also pleased as pie that my predictions of OTHERS' predictions were pretty good, except for the last two items. As I said, I am so impressed with people guessing Pippa's sexy shenanigans and her escape both.