rivendellrose: (Burnham)
[personal profile] rivendellrose posting in [community profile] spacefungusparty
A brief warning for those of you who sometimes venture onto Twitter: be aware that a large number of cast and crew are live-tweeting the finale tonight, so there will be spoilers all over many people's feeds. Take care!

And now that I've got that out of the way, here is your episode discussion post for Discovery 1x15: “Will You Take My Hand?”

As always, there will be spoilers in comments! I'll be back later this evening to join in the party once I've had a chance to watch the episode (and then possibly flail and/or cry for a while, depending on how things go), and will add some discussion starters or other remarks behind a cut once I feel I can put words together in a semi-coherent way.

It's been fantastic sharing the first season with you all, and I really appreciate having this community to discuss, share, and generally flail with. I hope we'll have lots more to share during the hiatus (which with any luck won't be too terribly long!).

See you on the other side. ♥



...Okay, so here's the deal. About 5, maybe 10 minutes in, I said out loud, "This is all getting handled suspiciously quickly."

That remained true for 90% of the episode.

It slowed down just long enough for two normal-pace speeches and then the normal-pace thing-at-the-end. But the whooooooole rest of the episode was like "That got resolved awfully quickly. So did that. So did that. ...So did that."

Also, is it just me, or is Ash living in different quarters every single time see them? I would understand if he had different quarters now than he did as the chief of security, but... these were different quarters than he had last week. And it might have been nice if they'd actually explained that he had the pictures from his childhood and youth out to remind himself of his past, because until I twigged to that I was like "uh, that's odd, he's never had pictures up all over his quarters before..."

I actually enjoyed getting to see him start to process the composite of his two personalities. It was also nice getting to see Klingons acting like, well, Klingons, for once. People who Martok would recognize. That was nice.

The equal-opportunity nature of the Orion slaves was also nice. ...So was Georgiou taking advantage of that equal opportunity.

Tilly getting caught by a slaver was pretty much inevitable, and rather amusing the way it actually revealed information. What was not amusing was the fact that she somehow got retrieved without it ever becoming clear how? Did Georgiou snag her back? Did Burnham and Tyler have to go rescue her? Why were we in such a hurry that this got completely skipped?

I totally called L'Rell becoming the new leader of the Klingon empire. I figured Burnham would help her to do that. What I find somewhat perplexing is, again, the speed with which all of this was handled. "Hey, L'Rell, I know Emperor-I-mean-Captain Georgiou just beat the crap out of you ten minutes ago, but here, have your old clothes back, we're going to beam you down to a shrine on your planet because Specialist Burnham wants to give you blackmail material so you can become the new Torchbearer." I bet that was an interesting transition even for a Klingon.

Edited to add: After last week's trailer I said that I had been hoping Mary Chieffo would get a scene with Michelle Yeoh, because I was sure it would make her so happy. I joked about her posting on Twitter "She kicked me one time, it was amazing." I am not at all disappointed by the reality.

GOOD THINGS: Everybody lives! Philippa could come back at basically any moment and start making trouble again! L'Rell is the new Chancellor of the Klingon Empire (or has that term not been invented yet?)! Ash is going with her, so I guess he could come back at any time, too!

BAD THINGS: PACING IS A THING, GUYS. GOOD PACING IS A THING YOU AREN'T DOING. Also, okay, I realize this may not be the case for a lot of people, but the one thing, the ONE FREAKING THING, that I have hoped Disco would not do from the minute they revealed when it would be set... is encounter Enterprise. And yet here we are.

Also, I was really hoping all that sped up action on the main plot would somehow result in the resurrection of Culber. I guess we have to... wait for that? For next season? Or... no? I don't even know. So I guess I meant "Everybody who is not already dead lives." But... that's something?

I liked a lot of stuff here. But there were really significant pacing problems (like, really significant), and a Thing I Didn't Want was painted as the Best Thing Ever, and also just, like, way to not keep up your momentum, show. You had so much opportunity to make this episode amazing, and... for my money, you squandered it. And that makes me really, really sad.

Date: 2018-02-12 01:12 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
This comm has been SO FUN and interesting and supportive. It's great.

brb chewing my fingernails off

Date: 2018-02-12 06:17 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: Ash holding Michael close to touch foreheads, to breathe the same air (ashburn - star trek disco)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
It's been a wonderful comm. :) Coming here is always a feast.

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Date: 2018-02-12 01:46 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Also check out this beautiful finale poster

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVx_M-DVQAAO3IN.jpg:large

Date: 2018-02-12 02:15 pm (UTC)
ironed_orchid: watercolour and pen style sketch of a brown tabby cat curl up with her head looking up at the viewer and her front paw stretched out on the left (Default)
From: [personal profile] ironed_orchid
It's so perfect.

Date: 2018-02-12 02:13 am (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: my unofficial yuletide icon (DOOMED!)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
I don't think I can emotionally handle the finale. This show has been one wild ride after another. I'll pretend this happened instead.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Date: 2018-02-12 02:23 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
HAH YESSSSSSSS

Date: 2018-02-12 03:13 am (UTC)
tptigger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tptigger
LOL. Did you do that, it's genius

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Date: 2018-02-12 06:18 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: symbol, image, ttrpg, party, pun about rolling dice and getting rolling (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
Ahahahahah, YES!

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Date: 2018-02-12 02:13 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: symbol, image, ttrpg, party, pun about rolling dice and getting rolling (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
Thanks for the reminder! I just idly checked Twitter, and...noped out.

Date: 2018-02-12 02:22 am (UTC)
nonelvis: (STAR TREK Burnham and Georgiou)
From: [personal profile] nonelvis
Parts I loved (TILLY ♥ ♥ ♥), parts I was meh about (the pacing and pretty much everything involving Ash), but OH OH OH THE ENDING. MY HEART.

Also, Michelle Yeoh was fantastic, but when is she not?

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Date: 2018-02-12 02:32 am (UTC)
alethia: (ST Uhura)
From: [personal profile] alethia
YES! L'RELL ASSUMES THE POSITION THAT SHE ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE HAD!!!!! That always irked me, how she noped out of being in charge, so this was a welcome end to it all.

I also love how the plan is essentially, put a lady in charge and everything will get fixed. YES, THAT'S RIGHT, DO THAT.

The war wrap-up was too quick, they didn't fix Culber, they went further by deploying the evil bisexual trope with Georgiou, so this was far from perfect, but I appreciated what it had to say about Federation principles.

Date: 2018-02-12 03:17 am (UTC)
tptigger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tptigger
All of that. I'm really not impressed with the handling of the Culber storyline-what if there wasn't season 2?

Tilly was delightful, I'm... less.. sad about Ash, L'Rell in charge is awesome and it finally felt like Star Trek at the end.

Now if I could just explain Bury Your Gays to my baby boomer parents in a way they understood (or at least why I was crying in frustration about it. I expect better from Star Trek)

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Date: 2018-02-12 04:16 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I completely failed at predicting anything in my poll! I am actually embarrassed.

You ALMOST got a bingo. Maybe the bit about "well we're just gonna dump the spore drive LOL" at the end counts as nonsense?

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Date: 2018-02-12 04:12 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jiokra
I was on the fence about Discovery this whole time because in the end it didn't feel too much like goody two shoes nerds in space exploring stuff and discussing politics in a bizarrely entertaining fashion...

...but I really loved this!

I'm excited to see Voq and L'Rell back together again, the Enterprise in distress was a fun surprise, and I've been wanting acting captain Saru for awhile. I'm hoping Georgiou comes in and out a bit like Gul Dukat or even Q. She has the potential to be a fun villain like Q.

Date: 2018-02-16 07:33 am (UTC)
mekare: smiling curly-haired boy (Default)
From: [personal profile] mekare
>>I'm hoping Georgiou comes in and out a bit like Gul Dukat or even Q. She has the potential to be a fun villain like Q.

Oh definitely! That’s why I loved that she took the chance to get away. She’d be great as recurring villain.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Date: 2018-02-12 04:39 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I get the feeling I'm going to be the spectre at the feast because wow, this felt really like a squib and I was very disappointed. (My partner thought it was great, sniffled a bunch of times, really liked the arc nature of the show.)

That was rushed. It could have easily been a two-part ep. Actually so could the ep before this one. Something funny seems to have happened in the editing room, since there was an episode that ran really short, and these two eps were rushed and didn't run long at all. I really wonder why the finale wasn't ninety or even sixty minutes. It's not like it has to fit into a network schedule.

I SUCK at predicting things apparently. No time travel, no rescuing Hugh, no rescuing the hundreds of thousands or millions? of people who died in the Klingon war, no hard/soft reset, no nothing. Nobody died, either, which was a bit of a relief, and I really liked what happened to L'Rell, but I really thought there would be time travel or space spore magic or something.

Michael was great -- loved her standing up to the Emperor, loved her standing up to Kat (and Saru was the first one to stand with her! aww), loved her standing for the Federation principles and never backing down. It feels wrong for her to have her record cleared and not be Captain, tho, and this could have happened if it had been a two-parter. Michelle Yeoh's part got a little OTT evil, but I totally believed she was willing to commit genocide and that the top humans left in command would support her. Tilly got some great one-liners and I loved her putting everything together even when she was super stoned. Nobody else got that much to do, which was disappointing after the crew had had lines and personalities the past few eps.

Evil Bisexuals in Leather Pants continues to be a trend in genre shows. Okay then. Michelle Yeoh did look absolutely hot in the getup (they all did).

THEY LET THE EMPEROR GO. I know that's supposed to be a parallel with historical war criminals who have been let go with a pat on the back, or even given jobs, but SHE JUST TRIED TO COMMIT GENOCIDE! SHE IS THE MOST UNTRUSTWORTHY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY.

ASH WENT OFF WITH L'RELL. WHAT. After everything he went through and how he thought she had tortured and raped him and then they still didn't really get along? Michael watching him speak to L'Rell as Voq was heartbreaking, and the bit in the casino where he was all KLINGON GAMBLING RAWR well-done. I didn't realize Klingons had killed her parents (did we know that before?) which I guess is why Sarek said it was ~ironic she fell in love with one (but she didn't, she fell in love with Ash) (also Vulcans apparently listen to Alanis Morrissette, who knew). Also, that 'they sat there and laughed and ate our dinner' is a direct steal from a true crime story I saw ages ago on a tabloid type show, altho I can't remember the details. So I guess they were meant to be a star-crossed Romeo and Juliet all along, which is really not what I was expecting given the PTSD and tether stuff. -- Maybe they'll meet up again in S2, but I thought it was kind of telling he wasn't with L'Rell at the big Klingon council.

I didn't recognize Amanda for a good couple of minutes, partly because she is WAY TOO YOUNG to be Michael's mother.

The spore drive was set up as this huge thing, it was a big mystery at the beginning, and now they're just...dropping it? Pouf? Yeah that was a setup so they would have to drop out of warp to answer the distress call, but it was really disappointing given how big a role it played and with the whole mystical goodbye with Hugh thing.

The Enterprise thing. Twitter and everywhere else went gaga over that, but I didn't really care. I don't see how it fits in, I'm not a big fan of Captain Pike, and I wanted to see more about the people I had come to care about over their show. If it was all just a prelude to Enterprise: The High School Years, that's a real bummer.

Scenes my partner liked: everything with Georgiou and Tilly, Sarek telling Michael her name had been cleared, the crew standing up with Michael, the goodbye with Michael and Ash (BAH), L'Rell's victory, Michael's speech, all the big high points. I didn't think those scenes were bad, it was just as the show went further along and more time ticked away and I realized they were going in a wayyy different direction, I felt emotionally detached from it.

So I didn't think it was a terrible horrible no good finale, but there were real problems with it -- the pacing, how Ash and Georgiou wound up, the way a lot of stuff was just completely dropped -- and is Spock on that Enterprise? Because if he is I really don't see how it fits. I haven't really cared about how well or poorly the show fits in to Prime TOS continuity (the writers seem to be more congruent with Enterprise than anything else), but if they're going to just mash the two ships together like this, there should be a reason beyond "we can do it and it will look cool."

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Date: 2018-02-12 05:02 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
About 5, maybe 10 minutes in, I said out loud, "This is all getting handled suspiciously quickly."
That remained true for 90% of the episode.


YUP

It slowed down just long enough for two normal-pace speeches and then the normal-pace thing-at-the-end. But the whooooooole rest of the episode was like "That got resolved awfully quickly. So did that. So did that. ...So did that."

YUP

They hit all the beats -- emotional, narrative, whatever -- but they just had little to no emotional impact for me because it was like they were being checked off while we tore through them all. And some of them were great -- Michael facing down Georgiou and daring her to kill her, L'Rell triumphing over the rest of the Klingons, the crew standing up with Michael -- they just zipped by so quickly an there was so little preparation for them I was like "yeah, there goes that."

The Ash thing was weird because he was talking as Ash but then kind of acting as Voq. I guess that's him starting to integrate himself, but what the hell is he going to do in the Klingon empire? Fix dinner for L'Rell and rub her feet after she gets home from dominating the councils? Actually that doesn't sound too bad He's not human, not Klingon, so him going off to the super Klingon environment was just....off. Maybe he'll be an ambassador next season. IDK.

I totally called L'Rell becoming the new leader of the Klingon empire.

That was very cool! I thought maybe Georgiou and L'Rell would make a deal....but no.

"Hey, L'Rell, I know Emperor-I-mean-Captain Georgiou just beat the crap out of you ten minutes ago, but here, have your old clothes back, we're going to beam you down to a shrine on your planet because Specialist Burnham wants to give you blackmail material so you can become the new Torchbearer." I bet that was an interesting transition even for a Klingon.

I know it had to be a narrative surprise, but that was a scene that REALLY could have used some fleshing out, both for the characters and to make it convincing. It also would've been nice if L'Rell had talked with Michael once or twice somehow while she was in the brig. She was just sealed off, and then that makes her a convenient solution at the end more than something integral to the plot.

GOOD THINGS: Everybody lives! Philippa could come back at basically any moment and start making trouble again! L'Rell is the new Chancellor of the Klingon Empire (or has that term not been invented yet?)! Ash is going with her, so I guess he could come back at any time, too!

Nobody died! Whooo! I was SO ANXIOUS about people dying. I was so scared Burnham would have to mutiny against Philippa, or kill her again, or kill Ash, or something. Thankfully, none of that happened.

Also, okay, I realize this may not be the case for a lot of people, but the one thing, the ONE FREAKING THING, that I have hoped Disco would not do from the minute they revealed when it would be set... is encounter Enterprise. And yet here we are.

Yyyyyyeah and as a result all the griping everyone has been doing about how does this show fit into the timeline has suddenly become relevant, as opposed to pissed-off fanboys complaining. Argh.

just, like, way to not keep up your momentum, show. You had so much opportunity to make this episode amazing, and... for my money, you squandered it. And that makes me really, really sad.

It was very disappointing in light of the last few eps, yeah, which were so much better. This felt to me like one of those endings that gets mapped out first, and then they have to hit all the beats in it no matter what happened while they were writing, filming and editing all the eps before it. This is a really common problem with TV writing. (You could see it happen again and again in Buffy and the X-Files.) It almost felt like this was thought up before stuff like the spore network or time travel happened, which I know was not the case, but that was how badly out of tune it seemed with most of the rest of the show.


ETA Someone on reddit (LOL) pointed out Cornwall would've been a better fit to make the offer to L'Rell, since they knew each other a lot better and arguably respected each other. I was kind of surprised Kat was sidelined so much in the finale.
Edited Date: 2018-02-12 05:05 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-02-12 05:10 am (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Enterprise)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
I hope that Gowron is her successor and not the guy who overthrows her. (What? The Undiscovered Country was my first Star Trek.)

Actually, L'rell wanted Azetbur to be her successer, but she left Gorkon in charge until his daughter came of age.

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Date: 2018-02-12 05:03 am (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Georgiou)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
Last poll

Georgiou is bisexual! *dances*

Tilly, don't listen to Georgiou, your curls are fabulous!

Ash made the right decision, but I'll miss his Bambi eyes.

Yay, Amanda! Michael, you need to spend more time with your actual Mom and quit abducting mother figures from alternate universes.

Michael and Philippa continue to have inappropriate chemistry. Why????

But prime Philippa and Michael went on vacation together. That's sure to launch a few fanfics.

I'm sure Conrnwell made sure everyone got therapy, including herself.

Who cares about the Enterprise? I want our new Captain. (I hope they keep passing the chair around like Harry Potter did with its Defense Against the Dark Arts instructor position.)

Hugh was awarded the Medal of Honor. *bursts into tears*

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Date: 2018-02-12 05:56 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: Ash holding Michael close to touch foreheads, to breathe the same air (ashburn - star trek disco)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
I am so thrilled that this episode as such was, technically, an Everybody Lives feature! But yes, the overall show still killed Culber...to return, I suppose, but that's not the same.

And MICHAEL BURNHAM SAVED THE DAY! And Ash is alive -- but this story has its own twist; be careful what you wish for. I wished for Ash to survive and be instrumental regarding the Klingon homeworld; he did and he was, oh he was...but it meant revealing the truth that memories make the man: He can access Voq with such ease that he can become Voq. Is he in control? Yes, canon shows it; Voq is a shadow of Ash. But funny thing about your shadow? It never leaves you. So even if we discount his physicality being Klingon we do end up with a somewhat Klingon-integrated Ash Tyler.

The pacing was inexplicable. Y'all. You can do better.

Also, it's still Bury Your Gays even if you deign to resurrect them from the dead at some later point.

But, but, I loved so many moments: MICHAEL AND TILLY. L'RELL FINALLY STEPPING UP AND LEAVING VOQ BEHIND BECAUSE COME ON THE ONLY PERSON WHO REALLY THOUGHT VOQ WAS GREAT WAS L'RELL. ;)

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Date: 2018-02-12 08:14 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
Pacing could've been better, but I'm sure by the time the first episode of season 2 rolls around I'll have forgotten all that.

Date: 2018-02-12 09:23 am (UTC)
lizbee: (Star Trek: Michael/Lorca (mirror))
From: [personal profile] lizbee
WHAT WAS THAT PACING?

I mean, I'm not surprised that it ended in a Legend of Korra-style pacing disaster -- I saw that coming from a few weeks ago -- but I'm disappointed, because that was super rushed.

(I believe Fuller's plan was to introduce the Mirror Universe much earlier, and when he left, that stuff was pushed back so as to let us get to know the characters. Which I think was the right choice, but it feels like the final third of the season was smushed into two episodes.)

People who are okay (for now)

The crew of Discovery.

People who are living their best lives

Philippa. I kind of want her to end up a cross between Gul Dukat and River Song for Michael. (Note: I also kind of ship Dukat/Sisko, sooooooooo yeah.)

People who are still not okay

Kat Cornwell. Glossy hair, shiny medals and make-up aside, she seems kind of shellshocked by her role in a near-atrocity. (Or maybe I'm projecting, since she had to be the face of it to Discovery's bridge crew?)

While Sarek's all, "Welp, almost had a hand in a genocide, guess I feel a bit bad about that," Kat looks like she's being eaten alive by guilt. God give us all the confidence of a mediocre Vulcan man.

People who have seen some shit, man

Discovery's super handsome transporter chief.

Important casting questions

While everyone else has opinions about Pike and Spock, I have a more important question: WHO SHOULD PLAY NUMBER ONE? (Dear television gods, I would like Anna Torv in a brunette wig, please.)

As for a new captain, new security chief ... old chief engineer and chief medical officer -- your guesses are as good as mine! It's probably a couple of months, at least, before we'll start to see movement in the casting department.

Date: 2018-02-12 12:03 pm (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: thin elegant black cartoon cat (ST Katrina Cornwell closeup)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Philippa. I kind of want her to end up a cross between Gul Dukat and River Song for Michael.

YES. I'm getting the vague impression that we might even get that, but even if this is the last we see of her, that was a GREAT sendoff. (Plus she's like sixteen times hotter than Dukat, to me anyway.)


Kat Cornwell. Glossy hair, shiny medals and make-up aside, she seems kind of shellshocked by her role in a near-atrocity.

Oh god yes. KAT. Kat, it just about broke me to hear you gunning so hard for "we have to do this even if the history books judge us", oh Katrina no. They saved it AT THE LAST SECOND by having Michael come up with a third way (which I'd been hoping for) and you can just SEE that Kat's been so desperate for so long that she glommed onto the awful awful plan because it DID seem like the only answer, and was stanning for it because if she let go of that, they were all going to die horribly from Klingon torture or something. And then you see her sort of collapse in on herself a bit and go "Okay, so what's the other plan?"

I WAS SO RELIEVED. Also: great to see her at the medal ceremony, shit though it's so WEIRD to see her all dressed up with shiny makeup rather than in her on-the-job mode.

I very much hope that we keep Kat as a recurring sane-admiral character in season 2. <3 And it sounds like L'Rell will be relevant as well (leader of the Klingon empire, yo!) though I have closed the tab with the interview that says that season 2 isn't going to be war-focused (thank god).

God give us all the confidence of a mediocre Vulcan man.

RIGHT? I guess that was kind of a real apology coming from that guy, but still.

People who have seen some shit, man
Discovery's super handsome transporter chief.


YES. He is played by a young man called Michael Ayres, apparently. He needs to be the Chief O'Brien of this show (by which I mean: get promoted and get lots to do, and maybe marry a smart sexy biologist, not get tortured every few weeks :P).


Definitely more invested in Number One than in Spock, if we're going to have the Enterprise. That would be new and interesting and also tie us back into the very very first Star Trek, if we had her!

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Date: 2018-02-12 10:40 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Spock captioned "emotion inside" (ST Spock emotion inside)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Nobody died, nobody genocided the Klingons, Michael got her rank back, and L'Rell got to be Chancellor. I'm pretty happy.

Questions I have include: Who's this supposed new captain they're picking up on Vulcan, and why can't Saru keep doing the job? Also, when is Hugh coming back? Because I don't entirely buy that he's 100% dead (not after Georgiou and Kat). At the same time leaving him dead at the end of the season was pretty fucking cruel, show. Not okay. Not.

I am so relieved though that Michael was able to talk Starfleet around. I couldn't have handled it if she hadn't. And oh Kat, that was PAINFUL hearing you talk about how "atrocities are labelled that after the fact" and I hope you get some therapy and a tribble.

Date: 2018-02-12 01:56 pm (UTC)
tptigger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tptigger
Who's this supposed new captain they're picking up on Vulcan, and why can't Saru keep doing the job?
My sentiments precisely. I want Saru for Captain and Michael for First Officer. Then look out universe.
(Maybe Captain Pike will recommend him.)

Also, when is Hugh coming back? Because I don't entirely buy that he's 100% dead (not after Georgiou and Kat). At the same time leaving him dead at the end of the season was pretty fucking cruel, show. Not okay. Not.
They keep saying it's not BYG. So I assume he's coming back at some point, but I think if the season ends before that happens and you didn't have a season 2 pickup when you wrote the episode, then it still counts.

And it's ()*)(&*()*&* Star Trek. They should KNOW BETTER.

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Date: 2018-02-12 12:26 pm (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: thin elegant black cartoon cat (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Thought on the season-finale-ness of the episode:

I would really have liked it if the season finale had gone out with a bang! That said, 1x13 had that wonderful satisfying emotional closure thing for me, so I almost feel like I've already seen the season finale and this is just wrapup? I was even surprised that 1x14 was so good since I didn't think it could top the last Mirrorverse one. :P

I mean, an awesome two-parter season finale that was up to the standards of the last couple of eps would have been really really really great and I'm sad we got "just okay" instead. But I can still go back and rewatch Michael saving Emperor Pippa when I need that jolt of feels. <3

(also it does help that they didn't completely fuck over any of my faves, THANK GOD)

Date: 2018-02-22 06:46 am (UTC)
mekare: smiling curly-haired boy (Michael)
From: [personal profile] mekare
I would really have liked it if the season finale had gone out with a bang!

I was sort of expecting a finale like that anyway. Everything resolved very quickly, though I really appreciate them jot killing anyone off this time.

Date: 2018-02-12 01:17 pm (UTC)
ironed_orchid: (huh)
From: [personal profile] ironed_orchid
I feel kinda disappointed.

I mean, it's great that the war is over and that people got some nice emotional resolutions and stuff.

But I kinda feel like "this is not bury your gays" is code for "we totally buried your gay."

Also there just wasn't much actual conflict, Emperor Georgiou caved really easily, L'Rell only had to show the Klingons the detonater and they bowed to her, and everyone got medals.

And then the muthafucking Enterprise. I'm just glad it's not the crew of Enterprise.

I was half expecting Vulcan to be destroyed and timey wimey shenanigans required to fix everything. But no, just the goddamn Enterprise.

Date: 2018-02-12 09:49 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
T was all "Oh, the Enterprise, hunh, I guess that's nice" and I reminded him if we see Kirk and Spock it'd be more recasting and he actually made the D: face.

Date: 2018-02-12 10:18 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (travel)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
This didn't feel like a season finale, it felt like a series finale. After watching it, Mr Cheyinka was already impatient for the next episode, but I felt... done? I mean, I'll happily watch the next season, but it feels like everything got all wrapped up just fine.

I was displeased with one of the showrunners, on After Trek, saying "remember the green spore and Tilly", because as much as I'd be happy to see Culber reanimated / resurrected / revivified / whatever, having it be from a spore that's just sat on Tilly's shoulder for months feels... cheap? Weird? It feels something. I'd be fine seeing Stamets grieve, if I trusted that they'd handle it well. (Leaving aside the "maybe the widely-celebrated gay couple shouldn't be the one to have one half grieving at the end" part.)

On the other hand it seems like they're juxtaposing Ash and Michael with Culber and Stamets, and I think we're expected to expect to see Ash again, so... I dunno?

I mean, it sounds like I'm all complaints, but I did like the episode! I just... I'm not full of squee, just calmly satisfied, and I don't think that's how writers want someone to feel at the end of a season. (Even the distress call - they're not really going to start the season premiere of Discovery with an Enterprise-focused episode, so I don't know that we'll even find out what that was, outside of licensed novels!)

Date: 2018-02-12 11:58 pm (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: thin elegant black cartoon cat (CJC man'chi)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
*zips in* Is that a mecheita?? *zips out*

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Date: 2018-02-16 07:08 am (UTC)
mekare: smiling curly-haired boy (Saru)
From: [personal profile] mekare
Wow. I am still sort of half numb from watching yesterday evening. So um. I went into this so AFRAID and CERTAIN at least two characters would die (my bet was on Philippa and Ash) and then they didn’t. Which is a good thing. BUT. As [personal profile] rivendellrose pointed out, everything got resolved so quickly I really couldn’t keep up and couldn’t even be happy that everybody lived (which I had already relegated to *safety lalaland headcanon territory*).
I mean I got what I wanted (Michael and Ash talky scene, L’Rell and Philippa scene, Ash screentime, bridge crew coming together against Admiral Cornwell’s plan). I got things I didn’t even know I wanted like Amanda! I just, yeah it probably was all the pacing’s fault (which was usually excellent in the previous episodes, so this was jarring in comparison...)

Tilly taking drugs wasn’t logical to me, she knew better. And the rescue off screen, um nope.
I didn’t even think about the complet 180 they did on L’Rell until you pointed out that she must have wiplash too.

Was this a financial thing? I feel there were too many loose ends that had to be tied up so they did everything haphazard.

Oh, and my biggest disappointment: I was fully expecting a Culber return. ALL season long they said, trust us, wait for it and I did. And got nothing. He is still dead at the end of the season. How is that not bury your gays? Unless they meant, wait until season 2. Either way, they were misleading us and I am angry.

Date: 2018-02-16 01:20 pm (UTC)
tptigger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tptigger
1) It is 150% Bury Your Gays, even if he comes back at this point. I was in tears at the end of the episode for that very reason. I expected better from Star Trek. The last few episodes have proven that they do kind of actually know what they're doing, which makes this giant mistake all the more frustrating.
2) Wilson Cruz, Anthony Rapp, and Aaron Harberts (show runner) keep saying he'll be back, hang in there. Well, on Twitter and an Entertainment magazine. There was an interview with Rapp posted to Startrek.com that made me side eye pretty hard. So this is.... likely an ill advised mess, because I want to believe, but there are a lot of people hurting a lot. (To the point where Wilson and Anthony are visibly losing patience with Twitter over this. I don't blame them. The writers made this decision, they should get all the guff.)
3) As we say in the Young Wizards fandom: *Optional hugs*

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